Mark
Goodwin [Photo
by Nikki Clayton; Mark Goodwin performing at the launch of Rock as Gloss,
Sheffield 2019] is a walker, balancer, stroller & climber. He has been
making poetry for over three decades, and has published six full-length books
and eight chapbooks with various English poetry houses, including Longbarrow
Press https://longbarrowpress.com/about/
& Shearsman Books https://www.shearsman.com . He has
received various awards and grants, including, in 1998, an Eric Gregory Award
from The Society of Authors. His poetry was featured in The Ground Aslant –
An Anthology of Radical Landscape Poetry, edited by Harriet Tarlo
(Shearsman Books 2011) & The Footing edited by Brian Lewis
(Longbarrow Press 2013). Both his books with Longbarrow Press – Steps (2014)
and Rock as Gloss (2018) – were category finalists in the Banff Mountain
Book Competition. Mark lives with his partner on a narrowboat in Leicestershire.
Mark
tweets poems from @kramawoodgin
1 -
How did your first book or pamphlet change your life? How does your most recent
work compare to your previous? How does it feel different?
Firstly,
rob, thank you very much for showing interest in my work, and asking such interesting
questions.
That
first question – how did my first book change my life? – is a very good
question. It is, now, being some thirteen years later, not actually an easy one
for me to answer. Soon after I’d published my first book the answer would’ve
been straightforward, and would’ve focused on my pleasure, pride to some
extent, and my relief for finally feeling, well ... validated. But now, I
recall it as something else, realise it was, and is, something else ... but it
is hard to explain. I will have a go, but will have to, I’m sorry, make use of
more poetic language ... and so my answer might not – and in fact probably
won’t – pin anything down.
My
first book – Else, with Shearsman Books https://www.shearsman.com/store/Mark-Goodwin-Else-p102838741
– was not just affirmation from a good
publisher, it was perhaps even more than that. It changed my life by appearing
as a ‘thing’ ... being, for me, a physical object made from what I’d imagined.
A solid paper book is such an essential bag, but also a map. As a walker, I’ve
always liked my rucksack. And I love maps. I hadn’t realised until my first
book was in my hands – and then placed inside a bag to be carried – that one’s
own book can help to carry one’s self (or selves!). A self is not only a heavy
thing at times, but it is also always a shape in mist, and so one’s own book
offers a special corner or space or even landscape where you can follow the
spectre of self. And that of course helps me to follow the selves of others.
Coming
to your next questions about comparisons: For me (whatever me is), my
most recent work does exactly the same as the earliest, in that it makes spaces
for me to ‘put’ or ‘place’ where this strangeness known as ‘I’ has been, and
wants to go ... and most importantly, my work can help make where that strange
‘I’ now is. I have always been
fascinated by place, and my books, for me, are places into which
and in which to place places ... And I hope to pass on places to others,
give others the resonances of certain locations and landscapes ... transmit vibrations
& images others also can imagine with. However, my work has changed
(and not for the first time) its ‘way’. Whereas much of my earlier work attended
to the intricacies of detail, a lot of my present work is now more like cairns
made from few stones or even just a couple of stones, sometimes improbably
balanced. My later poetry, compared to my earlier, feels more like swiftly
moving with a familiar body, rather than deliberating over the legend of a map.
(In
what I’ve said so far, I’ve been focusing on the majority of my books, which tend,
although not entirely, to focus on place and landscape. However, I do write in
various ways, and my book Shod, for example, focuses more on characters
& narrative, and in ways that could be described as satirical & irreverent.)
2 -
How did you come to poetry first, as opposed to, say, fiction or non-fiction?
Poetry
got into my mouth. The simple physical pulsations and clicks of it. My mother
says that as a small child whilst on the back seat of the car I’d natter to
myself and chunner along. Just the feel of vowels flowing through the rub of
consonants. I do love a good story, and I love film ... and I do actually make
fiction. But it’s the scraping of one word against another, or indeed the cracking
open or snapping of words, without knowing how many sparks or what colours they
will be or where or how far they will fly ... that is what really makes me want
to make. It is the picking up of sound and ... handling it! But it is also the
translations, and transformations of sound into marks & patterns on
a page ... and the materiality of the alphabet and how it can be manipulated within
the frame of a page, or through the space (place) of a page ... or of
course, across a carefully placed series of pages ...
3 -
How long does it take to start any particular writing project? Does your
writing initially come quickly, or is it a slow process? Do first drafts appear
looking close to their final shape, or does your work come out of copious
notes?
I make
poetry in different ways, and I guess I have experienced quite a few differing
processes, and also procedures. Mostly I write quickly, but in a few cases
poems have taken years. There have been poems that have been chiselled down to
the last stones, but mostly editing is light, and is now more to do with moving
small amounts of material around, rather than getting rid of lots.
4 -
Where does a poem usually begin for you? Are you an author of short pieces that
end up combining into a larger project, or are you working on a
"book" from the very beginning?
I’ve
always been working on “a book”, right from the start. I just didn’t realise it
until much later. Before poems are bound together in a book, there are
various hidden alignments of one poem with another across time ... it is as if
some other self of me had been up to something else while I’d been getting on
with living, and only later did I see the tracks of that other, and spot the
clues that other me had left for me.
I have
made my books by waiting and then sifting through poems until I found those
that converse in the right way. I have for some years thought of each book as a
poem and each poem as a stanza. I’m now starting to feel, as I’ve noticed –
and even later intended – strong connections between my books, that possibly
it’s each book that is now a stanza. I love that the word ‘stanza’ also means
room ... and room is space ... it was for me that each room was part of a house,
but now room is also broader space, room to grow ...
And as
for where one poem begins for me – I’m not always sure. Sometimes it seems it
begins as sound my mouth wants to shape synchronised with a vivid image rising
... but often later I realise that that ‘rising’ was not the start, and was
instead my body noticing the shape, and that in fact the fluid crystal of it
had been growing somewhere in my world for quite a time. However, there are
times when I know a poem is the snap of a twig, and comes just at the moment of
treading.
5 -
Are public readings part of or counter to your creative process? Are you the
sort of writer who enjoys doing readings?
I am a
maker who speaks, as well as writes, in various ways. Making the sound
of poetry is essential for me. And so is intercreativity – seeing others
listening and then feeling them pick up those sounds and also make with them as
I speak is ... well, one of the most satisfying and thrilling things in my
life.
Unfortunately
(and indirectly related to Covid-19) my hearing in my right ear is now
impaired, in that certain frequencies and levels of sound are unpleasant. It is
improving, and I hope it improves enough for me to be able to speak out loud again
to an audience, and also perhaps for me to begin again making field-recordings
and sound-enhanced poems ... something that has been a vital part of my
practice.
6 -
Do you have any theoretical concerns behind your writing? What kinds of
questions are you trying to answer with your work? What do you even think the
current questions are?
I
wouldn’t describe myself as phenomenologist, as being a phenomenologist entails
a very specialised rigorous yet gentle kind of interactive interrogation of worlds,
beings & things. However, I’ve come to realise that my work is rooted in
phenomenology. I am a poet of being and doing, an experiencer of ‘place’
and experiencer through ‘place’. Place is a phenomenon that makes me
make my world, makes me make that strange ‘me’, and above all allows me to experience
the people & places I love.
As for
the current question – that of human survival – it is nothing to do with a supposedly
threatened planet. It is rather, everything to do with a threatened ‘place’ ...
and the threat of human ‘placeness’ disappearing. The unimaginably deep-aged
& complex process that is a planet can’t be threatened by any animal. All species
are ephemeral, and all animals’ brief ‘places’ are always under threat, because
all animals are always subject to and dominated by aeon-enduring planetary
forces. Our particular animal way – human being, being human – is now more in
danger than it has ever been. Loss of solid, active and entwined connection to
the beings & ground of this planet should be, to our species, the clear and
present danger ... but this profound jeopardy seems to be largely unnoticed. I worry
that the dis-ease perpetrated by digital puppeteers – such as Facebook – is growing
out of people’s control, and could become a hidden pandemic of ‘placelessness’ ... It
is a growing horror to witness humans float off the ground, being rendered
by Google’s total surveillance ... being drawn away from the actualness of
being embodied and physically emplaced. I am a rock-climber, for various
reasons, but I think it is ‘touch’ that is the strongest reason. Staying in touch.
7 –
What do you see the current role of the writer being in larger culture? Does
s/he even have one? What do you think the role of the writer should be?
Artists
should, of course, make art, and also encourage others to do the same, either
through just making their art or through participatory arts and mentoring. It
can seem at the moment that The Borg are on our doorstep, droning on about how ‘resistance
is futile’. Well, art doesn’t care if it’s futile or not. Just making art is
resistance. And not necessarily making anything that even critiques or exposes
The Borg for who or what they/it are ... but certainly and vitally we
need to go on being uniquely creative and disciplined with our human expression.
And to survive, we must keep sharing that.
8 -
Do you find the process of working with an outside editor difficult or
essential (or both)?
Depends
on the editor. I’m very fortunate that my editors have been co-creators who
love poetry and leave their egos out of it. And because of that I then don’t feel
them to be ‘outside’. Such editors are not difficult, and are essential. They
don’t cling to static templates of validation ... they are open to surprise and
challenge. Tony Frazer at Shearsman has always been sensitive to the shapes on
a page. And my experience of working with editor Brian Lewis at Longbarrow has
been one of full artistic collaboration – an editing process that creates that
astounding paper thing called ‘a book’. My latest editor, David Martin, of
Middle Creek Publishing, has been hugely encouraging and open to the ‘way’
of my work. I think that after leaving the ego at the door, the next most
important thing for a poetry editor is an adventurous willingness to carefully follow
a particular ground, so as to work out the ‘way’ of that ground.
There are, sadly, some authoritarian editors who tend to smooth out or even
bulldoze over essential footprints. Who knows how much unique poetry has been
lost to an overarching infrastructure, by being highwayed over in this way.
9 -
What is the best piece of advice you've heard (not necessarily given to you
directly)?
Always
check your knot. ‘Check or deck!’ is the expression often used by climbers.
10
- How easy has it been for you to move between genres (poetry to sound work)?
What do you see as the appeal?
Ah,
thank you for asking that question that way – you’ve spotted my soundwork.
https://markgoodwin-poet-sound-artist.bandcamp.com
I
often describe myself as a poet-sound-artist. Being a poet, of course, is
being a kind of sound-artist. But it has been part of my practice for some time
to ‘sound-enhance’ poems – to mix my voice with other sounds and musical
elements, aided by software. And this has taught me much about ways of
speaking, and has affected strongly the ways I perform to an audience.
And my
places, and even places strange to me, have expanded through learning to listen,
through field-recording, and through giving close attention to noise and sound.
I love that if ‘noise’ is snapped and re-pron
ounced its sound is ‘no eyes’
So, I
don’t feel that there is a moving between poetry & soundwork ... poetry is
sound ... sound is poetry ... all of a piece experienced through differing frequencies
... and these frequencies are also held in the alphabet’s printed letters that
I also work with ... shapes that contain a potential of vibration we can read
or perhaps even feel through our eyes ...
11
- What kind of writing routine do you tend to keep, or do you even have one?
How does a typical day (for you) begin?
Of
late I’ve been doing more running, and much much more walking. And that is
good, because over the decades I have pushed, or rather constrained my body too
much – too many hours hunched at a keyboard typing, and also too long at the
computer working on sound. It is a daftness that I have had to put aside ...
I’m fifty-two now – I really must not sit for a straight ten or twelve hours,
sometimes even days in a row, writing or sound-making anymore. A twelve mile
walk is far far less gruelling ... and in fact makes my writer’s neck much
better. So, I’ve been careful to do less, make less, for over a year now. My
body & I are now on good terms about my creativity. Body gives Self treats
... like allowing Self to run up steep slopes in Bradgate Park! https://www.bradgatepark.org Waaaaaaaayyyyy!
12
- When your writing gets stalled, where do you turn or return for (for lack of
a better word) inspiration?
Well,
as I’ve just mentioned, I’m going through writer’s stop. But in the past,
whenever writing wasn’t happening, and I hadn’t intended that, well, I’d just
go and do something else. It always comes back. I was brought up on farm, and I
actually went to agricultural college. There used to be this thing called
‘leaving a field fallow’, not done so much these days. Anyway, it’s good for
pages, just like fields, to be left alone for a while.
13
- What fragrance reminds you of home?
Wood
smoke. Open fire in the farmhouse of my childhood home. And now the smoke from
the stove on the boat I live on.
14
- David W. McFadden once said that books come from books, but are there any
other forms that influence your work, whether nature, music, science or visual
art?
I do
agree with that, yes, books do come from books ... and it is such an
important thing for poets to be aware of. But before that magic cycle of
book-from-book-to-book-and-book-again ... books do actually come from people,
and people come from places, and places are full of things, other beings, and
happenings ... and so, perhaps you could say that a book is a very special kind
of place full of other places ...
And yes,
I am much influenced by nature, landscape, science, sci-fi, visual art, film,
music, dance, climbing ... the list goes on ...
And I
get much from collaborating with other artists. For example, I’ve made
film-poems with Loughborough-based artist Martyn Blundell https://vimeo.com/284744666 . I’ve collaborated with Sheffield-based climber
& artist Paul Evans https://seven-wonders.org/seven-wonders-2012/alport-castles/
, and I have an ongoing collaboration with Derbyshire-based artist Mark Spray https://twitter.com/kramawoodgin/status/1278396957363486722
.
Last
year Martyn Blundell and I worked on a film-poem with Aberdeen-based artist and
poet Dominique Cameron https://dominiquefcameron.com
& Valencia-based sound artist Edu
Comelles http://www.educomelles.com . It
is called Moor, and is a portrait of Scotland’s magnificent Rannoch Moor.
https://vimeo.com/434689472
15
- What other writers or writings are important for your work, or simply your
life outside of your work?
Long
list of poets ... ever growing. Phenomenologists like Merleau-Ponty and
Bachelard, and more recently David Abram. Also Peter Redgrove, Rebecca Solnit,
Peter Dent, Henry Williamson, Marina Warner, Geraldine Monk, Robert Macfarlane,
Penelope Shuttle, Nan Shepherd, Vasco Popa, Tim Lilburn, David Graeber,
Elisabeth Bletsoe, Peter Riley, Freya Mathews, Yuval Noah Hurari, Jorie Graham
to name but just a few more ... yes, I
could write a long list. Poets, novelists, non-fiction writers, film-makers
& auteurs, musicians, visual artists ... and I have made such lists in previous
interviews ...
There
are some writers, though, that I’ve not mentioned before, and some of them are
virtually anonymous to me. They are the numerous climbing guidebook writers
I’ve encountered. Niall Grimes is a prominent example, as he has produced and
edited beautiful climbing guidebooks for the British Mountaineering Council. For
example – Burbage, Millstone & Beyond (edited by David Simmonite) –
was a winner in the 2006 Banff Mountain Book Competition. https://www.banffcentre.ca/sites/default/files/Banff%20Mountain%20Film%20and%20Book%20Festival/Books/2006%20Book%20Competition%20winners_Archive.pdf
I’m delighted that my poetry is included
in some of these guides. Such guidebooks are full of photos, crag diagrams, &
rock-climb descriptions. And they have been so important in my life, ever since
I was fourteen when I first took up climbing. So many hours either poring over route
descriptions at home ... or actually carrying a guidebook up a crag to help
find my way. Yes, that book as bag thing again. Climbers actually put a book of
climbs in a zippered case and clip it to their harness, so they can read on the
rockface, to check the route whilst on their way ... Isn’t that fascinating ...
what does that say about climbers – their carrying a book full of climbs up the
crag the book describes ... ?
16
- What would you like to do that you haven't yet done?
I
would really like to traverse the Cuillin Ridge on The Isle of Skye – miles of
glorious scrambling and fairly easy climbing on rough gabbro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuillin
. I wouldn’t want to do it in a day. I’d like to take a couple of days, or
perhaps even three. Not make it such a challenge ... make it more of a collaboration
... a meeting of being and place ...
And I’d
like to take a mountain walking trip with my daughter and my son, staying in a
Scottish bothy or two. Who knows when that will happen? Even without pandemics
– daughter is a newly qualified vet, and son a training actor, so finding time
and date might be tricky!
17
- If you could pick any other occupation to attempt, what would it be? Or,
alternately, what do you think you would have ended up doing had you not been a
writer?
A
dancer, a movement artist ... although, in many ways being a climber, and
balancer, and even a walker is kind of that. In some ways I regret having given
so much time to poetry. Yes, I could’ve been a dancer. But then, by now my body
would certainly hurt even more!
18
- What made you write, as opposed to doing something else?
I just
breathed it in. And it moved me, and I moved with it. And it was irresistible.
And then it became my way.
19
- What was the last great book you read? What was the last great film?
Can I
say two books, please? They are very different. A frightening but brilliant and
essential study of our times, called The Age of Surveillance Capitalism by
Shoshanna Zuboff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Surveillance_Capitalism
And a
book of poetry, that was very kindly sent to me by Canadian poet Chris Turnbull
@ChrisCturnbul, called Towards a Blacker Ardour by Phil Hall. http://www.knifeforkbook.shop/store/p107/PHIL_HALL_TOWARD_A_BLACKER_ARDOUR_%28Beautiful_Outlaw%2C_2021%29.html
And
the last great film? Well, I do actually watch a lot of film, and re-watch a
lot too. But what springs to mind of late is: Embrace of The Serpent directed
by Ciro Guerra. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/feb/17/embrace-of-the-serpent-review-ciro-guerra-colombian-amazon
20
- What are you currently working on?
I’ve
got a number of MSs on the go, and that have been going for quite a while –
just finishing them off, tweaks & layout. Who knows when, or even if they
will be published.
I’m
also every now and again adding new wee poems to a big woodland of a MS called In
Twigs Nor Sky. This is my first book that makes me make poems for it,
rather than my bringing already-made poems with which to make the book.
And I’m
just now going through the final proofing of my next chapbook, called Erodes
On Air, which is soon to be published by American publisher Middle Creek https://www.middlecreekpublishing.com
. This will be my first publication in North America. Erodes On Air is a
highly compressed mountain travelogue.
And at
some point soon(ish), I expect to be also doing final layouts and proofing with
Tony Frazer, for my next full-length with Shearsman Books, called At,
which also focuses on mountains and moorland.
Other
than that, I’m delving into phenomenology, in the sense that I’m reading about
it, trying to get to grips with it ... and by gods there is not a chance of
doing long stints on that ... my brain sucks the sugar out of my blood very
quickly and then goes off-line ... so I then tend to pack in some muesli and go
outside ... or perhaps just lie down to stare through a window at twigs & sky
...
12 or 20 (second series) questions;